R
Ray
Guest
wie soll das denn gehen wenn nichtmal alle champs dabei sind ?
Abraham beim 50 millonen Dollar Turnier-Sensation-
- Ersteller Wadenbeisser
- Erstellt am
wie soll das denn gehen wenn nichtmal alle champs dabei sind ?
Ich verstehe nicht, was jemand an dem Turnier rummäckeln kann.
Was besseres konnte es gar nicht geben.
Und auch wenn es nur zu einem einzigen Top-Kampf führt, hat es sich schon gelohnt.
Bessere Vorschläge gibt es eh nicht oder sie sind total unrealistisch.
Was besseres konnte es gar nicht geben.
Und auch wenn es nur zu einem einzigen Top-Kampf führt, hat es sich schon gelohnt.
Bessere Vorschläge gibt es eh nicht oder sie sind total unrealistisch.
Rocco
Bankspieler
Bessere Vorschläge gibt es eh nicht oder sie sind total unrealistisch.
Doch ich hab' noch einen. Abraham gegen Froch, der Sieger direkt eine Unification mit Ward. Danach darf man direkt (ausserhalb des Turniers) gegen Bute oder/und Stieglitz antreten.
Kenshiro
Banned
Dirrell und Ward würde ich jederzeit gegen Joe Calzaghe favorisieren.
Kenshiro
Banned
Ward ist auch für mich der beste das hatte ich auch schon am Anfang mal geschrieben.Aber in einem direkten Duell gegen Direll würde der nicht gewinnen.Da bin ich mir ziehmlich sicher
KhaosaiGalaxy
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Einspruch : Ward ist noch wesentlich effektiver als Dirrell (leider - auch mit sehr schmutzigen Mitteln !). Hinzu kommt, daß Dirrell zumindest mental nicht sehr belastbar zu sein scheint bzw. fragil wirkt. O.k., rein vom technischen und Speed-Aspekt her ist er sicherlich auf Wards Level, mindestens, aber das ist eben nicht alles.
Rashid
Bankspieler
Ich sehe Dirrell gegen Ward auch vorne, relativ klar sogar .Dirrell ist nicht nur ein bischen schneller als Ward, da hat Dirrell einen klaren Vorteil.Technisch sind wohl beide auf einer Stufe.
An Dirrells mentale Schwäche mag ich auch nicht so recht glauben.Dafür machte er mir gegen Abraham einen zu taffen Eindruck.Die Szenen nach dem Kampf lasse ich jetzt mal außen vor.
Ich würde Dirrell schon zutrauen sich mit seiner Schnelligkeit Ward zu entziehen.Vom Punch her sehe ich auch nicht,wie Ward Dirrell gefährlich werden will, eher andersrum.
Wenn es darum geht einen Kampf destruktiv zu gestalten, wird Dirrell in Ward wohl seinen Meister finden, obwohl Dirrell in der Bziehung auch einiges zu bieten hat.
Bei zwei ausgeglichen Boxern, die sich auch vom Stil nicht allzu sehr unterscheiden, entscheidet meistens die Geschwindigkeit.
Speed Kills
An Dirrells mentale Schwäche mag ich auch nicht so recht glauben.Dafür machte er mir gegen Abraham einen zu taffen Eindruck.Die Szenen nach dem Kampf lasse ich jetzt mal außen vor.
Ich würde Dirrell schon zutrauen sich mit seiner Schnelligkeit Ward zu entziehen.Vom Punch her sehe ich auch nicht,wie Ward Dirrell gefährlich werden will, eher andersrum.
Wenn es darum geht einen Kampf destruktiv zu gestalten, wird Dirrell in Ward wohl seinen Meister finden, obwohl Dirrell in der Bziehung auch einiges zu bieten hat.
Bei zwei ausgeglichen Boxern, die sich auch vom Stil nicht allzu sehr unterscheiden, entscheidet meistens die Geschwindigkeit.
Speed Kills
Tony Jaa
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Im Boxen?
Gut, dass nun der WM-Titel ausgeboxt wird, ansonsten würde der Kampf nicht stattfinden.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von einem Moderator:
Rocco
Bankspieler
Widersprichst Du Dir gerne selber?
barrera
Nachwuchsspieler
Aber doch wohl nur, weil Calzaghe seit 2 Jahren inaktiv ist und natürlich auch gealtert sein wird.
Ein Prime-Calzaghe würde ich gegen jeden Teilnehmer des Super-6 favorisieren.
Ward wäre für mich auch gegen Dirrell Favorit, zumindest in Oakland.
Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass Dirrell mit Wards ständigen Kopfstößen klar kommen wird.
Auf neutralem Boden mit gutem Ringrichter wäre das für mich eine sehr ausgeglichene Angelegenheit, vielleicht sogar mit leichten Vorteilen Dirrell.
Ich weiß nicht. ward muss sich im gegensatz zu dirrell nicht auf die physis verlassen. Dirrell ist ein wenig schneller, aber ward kann den kampf scmutzig machen. Er würde sich nicht auf ein distanzbox duell einlassen sondern seinen kopf auf dirrells brust legen, wühlen, headbutten, elbowen und hit and hold betreiben. und dazu ist sein speed ja auch nicht schlecht.
dirrell ist in erster linie ein distanzboxer. ob er mit wards stil klarkommen würde ist für mich doch zumindest fraglich.
Es kommt alles darauf an ob ward ihm seinen stil aufzwingen kann. aus der distanz ist dirrell besser, aber wenn es schmutzig wird hat ward die vorteile
Wieso? man kann auch gegen nen schlechteren mann verlieren wenn einem der style nicht liegt.
Lord Krachah
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Ich poste mal einen kompletten Artikel, da er viele Fragen aufwirft, die ich mir auch stelle:
STUPOR SIX
It turns out that the re-scheduled date of the “Super Six” bout between old chums Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell was November 27th of Never because it was announced today by Showtime that Dirrell is pulling out of that assignment.
This whole saga has been bizarre from the beginning and it continued on Thursday morning. First of all, last week when Gary Shaw (who promotes Dirrell) and Showtime’s boxing czar, Ken Hershman, were in Los Angeles last week for the official press conference to promote the bantamweight tournament that takes place on December 11th in Mexico, I was told by both men during interviews (that can be viewed on Max-TV) that an announcement was forthcoming regarding a venue for that fight on Thanksgiving weekend. Originally, this match-up was slated for September 25th and just mysteriously allowed to slip away like a mirage as no venue or explanation was given for the first postponement (It was more than a bit strange that neither fighter had ever begun training for that fight).
Well, on Thursday morning, I woke up to see a release sent out from Chris DeBlasio of Showtime that came through at 6:19 AM, Pacific time, stating that Hershman would be hosting a conference call at 9:30 AM, Pacific time, to talk about the newest developments to their super middleweight scrum. Usually, publicists like to give the media about three or four days’ notification of such an event. Here, we were given about three hours (And, silly me, I thought it would be a perfect chance to ask Hershman just where Ward-Dirrell would land, so I could notify the dozen or so people that actually still cared enough to attend the fight in person).
But what was even more curious is that it turns out that Shaw (who is the promoter of record for Dirrell) wasn’t even notified of this conference call. Regardless, as Hershman greeted the media, he quickly announced the news that Ward-Dirrell was a no-go and that Ward would fight as planned on the same date and that the “Super Six” would continue.
The first member of the media to ask questions as usual was Dan Rafael of ESPN.com (who has a quicker trigger finger to the “*1” on the phone dial than Wyatt Earp to his pistol) who asked all the pertinent questions that needed to be asked. And, in short, an obviously irritated Hershman told us that he really didn’t know what ailment Dirrell was suffering from and that we’d have to ask members of Dirrell’s camp to get to the bottom of it (Which I found odd. Shouldn’t Showtime, which has such a vested interest in this format, have gotten some verification of what ailed Dirrell?).
Later on, the party line was released- Dirrell was suffering from lingering neurological effects from his bout with Arthur Abraham, which ended as Abraham blatantly fouled a prone Dirrell in the 11th round of their fight (And for the record, I think the DQ was completely justified and I don’t think in any way, shape or form did Dirrell fake his way out of this fight, which he happened to be winning).
As much as I hate to be a cynic, I’m gonna have to be a cynic and just ask a few questions. The fight with Abraham was on March 27th, more than six months ago. If Dirrell was suffering from “neurological problems”- as Shaw has stated- just why was this fight scheduled, not once but twice? What’s interesting is that leading up to the first attempt at securing this bout in late September, Showtime was compelled to send both Shaw and Dan Goossen (who represents Ward) legal letters warning them that not going through with this fight would put them in breach of contract.
It’s certainly an interesting strategy to take if a boxer’s health is truly at stake, in my humble opinion.
One well-informed source told me shortly after I left the conference call (which was after Rafael asked all the questions that needed to be broached) that from the very beginning, there was never a single, legitimate attempt to ever have this fight come to fruition from those involved and that the ever-influential adviser Al Haymon (who reps Dirrell) and Goossen (who shares a cozy relationship with Haymon because of their associations with Paul Williams and Chris Arreola) worked in concert together in this instance.
Well, as you look at the end result, you see that Haymon no longer has the problem in deciding where he’s going to be on that night (as another client of his, Andre Berto, is performing that evening in Las Vegas versus Freddie Hernandez on HBO) and Goossen, well, he gets to stage another Ward fight at the Oracle Arena in Oakland, which he wanted all along.
And it just came to me that Dirrell claimed a “back injury” to postpone the original date of his bout with Abraham, which many insiders believe was just an attempt to move the fight from Southern California (which has a sizable Armenian population) to a friendlier locale. This bout eventually landed at the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan, not too far from Flint, where Dirrell hails from.
Who knows? Maybe Dirrell really is damaged and his career is in jeopardy. If it is, I’ll be the first one to come forward and eat crow. But the reality is that anybody who decides to take up this dangerous sport and has done it for awhile will have some form of neurological damage; just the way a professional football player will most likely have knees or shoulders that may not be up to snuff. It’s what you call an occupational hazard.
But there have been industry insiders who are far more knowledgeable than I am, who have felt (I guess now, known) for months that this bout was never, ever, going to take place. And they all point to one reason- Haymon, who will do whatever is in his own best interests at the expense of the overall sport.
And speaking of No-More-Mr.-Nice-Guy, this is where Hershman has to step up and be heard. This innovative format was his brainchild and he put his heart and soul into making this work. But what do they say about no good deed going unpunished? If I’m Showtime, I hold everybody as legally accountable as possible in relation to their contractual obligations they signed on to. Also, I get out of the Haymon business; he has already damaged HBO’s boxing program with high-price, non-competitive bouts (the most recent example: the network shelling out a $1.25 million licensing fee from the Berto-Hernandez bout). It’s cringe-worthy to see Haymon’s tail now wag Showtime’s dog (Antonio Tarver on “ShoBox” as a heavyweight? Really?).
(Ken, my friend, you know how much I admire you but please be the guy that had me dub you “The Czar.” Be the network executive that cares about his subscribers and the boxing fan. This concept was great for the fans and most of them bought into it. Now, they feel betrayed again. We already have a Kery Davis at HBO; we don’t need one at Showtime. Throw down the gauntlet and protect your boxing franchise, your “Super Six” and, most of all, the fans. Tell Haymon and his boxers to take their machinations and mismatches across the street.)
Now, I know some of you are thinking I have gone all Oliver Stone here but I’m not the only one who feels this way. One highly-placed boxing insider, who has been around the block more than a few times, told me via email regarding Showtime perhaps regretting going into business with Haymon, "Ha! I would think that they should have noticed that by now! How much do you want to bet that Dirrell will suddenly recover from his head injuries as soon as the tournament is over and end up on HBO? Not to make light of what could be a serious thing but they just noticed this now?!"
As for the remainder of the “Super Six.” Well, it’s difficult to call it that anymore in light of the fact that half of the original cast has gone exit stage left. I’m as big an advocate of this format as anyone but I’m beginning to think that, while fantastic in concept, in reality, it’s perhaps impossible to execute fully. Showtime came into this with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, some of those that willingly signed up for this did not, it seems. Once again, boxing has met the enemy- and it is thyself. And if you think that Jose Sulaiman giving out a bunch of “silver belts” is the biggest problem facing boxing, then you don’t know what you don’t know.
As it relates to this edition of the “Super Six,” I’ll echo the words of Brian Billick, the former coach of the Baltimore Ravens, after a controversial call went against him after the instant replay system failed him several years ago- it’s just time to blow this whole damn thing up.
http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/no-more-mr-nice-guy
Naja, wäre schon sehr traurig, wenn es stimmen würde. Aber schön, dass Kim den Teufel des Boxsports, Al Haymon, wenigstens noch einmal klar als solchen benennt.
STUPOR SIX
It turns out that the re-scheduled date of the “Super Six” bout between old chums Andre Ward and Andre Dirrell was November 27th of Never because it was announced today by Showtime that Dirrell is pulling out of that assignment.
This whole saga has been bizarre from the beginning and it continued on Thursday morning. First of all, last week when Gary Shaw (who promotes Dirrell) and Showtime’s boxing czar, Ken Hershman, were in Los Angeles last week for the official press conference to promote the bantamweight tournament that takes place on December 11th in Mexico, I was told by both men during interviews (that can be viewed on Max-TV) that an announcement was forthcoming regarding a venue for that fight on Thanksgiving weekend. Originally, this match-up was slated for September 25th and just mysteriously allowed to slip away like a mirage as no venue or explanation was given for the first postponement (It was more than a bit strange that neither fighter had ever begun training for that fight).
Well, on Thursday morning, I woke up to see a release sent out from Chris DeBlasio of Showtime that came through at 6:19 AM, Pacific time, stating that Hershman would be hosting a conference call at 9:30 AM, Pacific time, to talk about the newest developments to their super middleweight scrum. Usually, publicists like to give the media about three or four days’ notification of such an event. Here, we were given about three hours (And, silly me, I thought it would be a perfect chance to ask Hershman just where Ward-Dirrell would land, so I could notify the dozen or so people that actually still cared enough to attend the fight in person).
But what was even more curious is that it turns out that Shaw (who is the promoter of record for Dirrell) wasn’t even notified of this conference call. Regardless, as Hershman greeted the media, he quickly announced the news that Ward-Dirrell was a no-go and that Ward would fight as planned on the same date and that the “Super Six” would continue.
The first member of the media to ask questions as usual was Dan Rafael of ESPN.com (who has a quicker trigger finger to the “*1” on the phone dial than Wyatt Earp to his pistol) who asked all the pertinent questions that needed to be asked. And, in short, an obviously irritated Hershman told us that he really didn’t know what ailment Dirrell was suffering from and that we’d have to ask members of Dirrell’s camp to get to the bottom of it (Which I found odd. Shouldn’t Showtime, which has such a vested interest in this format, have gotten some verification of what ailed Dirrell?).
Later on, the party line was released- Dirrell was suffering from lingering neurological effects from his bout with Arthur Abraham, which ended as Abraham blatantly fouled a prone Dirrell in the 11th round of their fight (And for the record, I think the DQ was completely justified and I don’t think in any way, shape or form did Dirrell fake his way out of this fight, which he happened to be winning).
As much as I hate to be a cynic, I’m gonna have to be a cynic and just ask a few questions. The fight with Abraham was on March 27th, more than six months ago. If Dirrell was suffering from “neurological problems”- as Shaw has stated- just why was this fight scheduled, not once but twice? What’s interesting is that leading up to the first attempt at securing this bout in late September, Showtime was compelled to send both Shaw and Dan Goossen (who represents Ward) legal letters warning them that not going through with this fight would put them in breach of contract.
It’s certainly an interesting strategy to take if a boxer’s health is truly at stake, in my humble opinion.
One well-informed source told me shortly after I left the conference call (which was after Rafael asked all the questions that needed to be broached) that from the very beginning, there was never a single, legitimate attempt to ever have this fight come to fruition from those involved and that the ever-influential adviser Al Haymon (who reps Dirrell) and Goossen (who shares a cozy relationship with Haymon because of their associations with Paul Williams and Chris Arreola) worked in concert together in this instance.
Well, as you look at the end result, you see that Haymon no longer has the problem in deciding where he’s going to be on that night (as another client of his, Andre Berto, is performing that evening in Las Vegas versus Freddie Hernandez on HBO) and Goossen, well, he gets to stage another Ward fight at the Oracle Arena in Oakland, which he wanted all along.
And it just came to me that Dirrell claimed a “back injury” to postpone the original date of his bout with Abraham, which many insiders believe was just an attempt to move the fight from Southern California (which has a sizable Armenian population) to a friendlier locale. This bout eventually landed at the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit, Michigan, not too far from Flint, where Dirrell hails from.
Who knows? Maybe Dirrell really is damaged and his career is in jeopardy. If it is, I’ll be the first one to come forward and eat crow. But the reality is that anybody who decides to take up this dangerous sport and has done it for awhile will have some form of neurological damage; just the way a professional football player will most likely have knees or shoulders that may not be up to snuff. It’s what you call an occupational hazard.
But there have been industry insiders who are far more knowledgeable than I am, who have felt (I guess now, known) for months that this bout was never, ever, going to take place. And they all point to one reason- Haymon, who will do whatever is in his own best interests at the expense of the overall sport.
And speaking of No-More-Mr.-Nice-Guy, this is where Hershman has to step up and be heard. This innovative format was his brainchild and he put his heart and soul into making this work. But what do they say about no good deed going unpunished? If I’m Showtime, I hold everybody as legally accountable as possible in relation to their contractual obligations they signed on to. Also, I get out of the Haymon business; he has already damaged HBO’s boxing program with high-price, non-competitive bouts (the most recent example: the network shelling out a $1.25 million licensing fee from the Berto-Hernandez bout). It’s cringe-worthy to see Haymon’s tail now wag Showtime’s dog (Antonio Tarver on “ShoBox” as a heavyweight? Really?).
(Ken, my friend, you know how much I admire you but please be the guy that had me dub you “The Czar.” Be the network executive that cares about his subscribers and the boxing fan. This concept was great for the fans and most of them bought into it. Now, they feel betrayed again. We already have a Kery Davis at HBO; we don’t need one at Showtime. Throw down the gauntlet and protect your boxing franchise, your “Super Six” and, most of all, the fans. Tell Haymon and his boxers to take their machinations and mismatches across the street.)
Now, I know some of you are thinking I have gone all Oliver Stone here but I’m not the only one who feels this way. One highly-placed boxing insider, who has been around the block more than a few times, told me via email regarding Showtime perhaps regretting going into business with Haymon, "Ha! I would think that they should have noticed that by now! How much do you want to bet that Dirrell will suddenly recover from his head injuries as soon as the tournament is over and end up on HBO? Not to make light of what could be a serious thing but they just noticed this now?!"
As for the remainder of the “Super Six.” Well, it’s difficult to call it that anymore in light of the fact that half of the original cast has gone exit stage left. I’m as big an advocate of this format as anyone but I’m beginning to think that, while fantastic in concept, in reality, it’s perhaps impossible to execute fully. Showtime came into this with the best of intentions. Unfortunately, some of those that willingly signed up for this did not, it seems. Once again, boxing has met the enemy- and it is thyself. And if you think that Jose Sulaiman giving out a bunch of “silver belts” is the biggest problem facing boxing, then you don’t know what you don’t know.
As it relates to this edition of the “Super Six,” I’ll echo the words of Brian Billick, the former coach of the Baltimore Ravens, after a controversial call went against him after the instant replay system failed him several years ago- it’s just time to blow this whole damn thing up.
http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/no-more-mr-nice-guy
Naja, wäre schon sehr traurig, wenn es stimmen würde. Aber schön, dass Kim den Teufel des Boxsports, Al Haymon, wenigstens noch einmal klar als solchen benennt.
treize
Bankspieler
Ordentlicher, wenn auch tendenziöser, Artikel.
Deckt sich grösstenteils mit dem was ich annahm.
Der 'Teufel des Boxsports' allerdings ist, aus meiner Sicht, nicht eine Person, sondern dass es nicht so etwas wie einen weltweiten, und auch anerkannten, Verband a la FIFA im Fussball, gibt, der Maßregelt. (wobei die FIFA nur als Beispiel dienen soll, und ich sie nicht für unstreitbar halte, sondern als 'Idee' verwenden möchte)
Diese gesamte, ich nenne sie 'Vagheit', eröffnet zu vielen Leuten, zu viele Möglichkeiten Geld zu machen, ohne sich an Regeln halten zu müssen.
Ein unkontollierter Finanzmarkt, im Kleinen, sozusagen, den jemand, der ihn nutzen kann, auch nutzen wird, um sich selbst in die bestmögliche Position zu bringen,wenn er/sie nicht davon, durch Regeln abgehalten wird.
Es gibt, so glaube ich, keinen SPORT der so sehr durch Finanzen kaputtgemacht wird, wie Boxen.
Deckt sich grösstenteils mit dem was ich annahm.
Der 'Teufel des Boxsports' allerdings ist, aus meiner Sicht, nicht eine Person, sondern dass es nicht so etwas wie einen weltweiten, und auch anerkannten, Verband a la FIFA im Fussball, gibt, der Maßregelt. (wobei die FIFA nur als Beispiel dienen soll, und ich sie nicht für unstreitbar halte, sondern als 'Idee' verwenden möchte)
Diese gesamte, ich nenne sie 'Vagheit', eröffnet zu vielen Leuten, zu viele Möglichkeiten Geld zu machen, ohne sich an Regeln halten zu müssen.
Ein unkontollierter Finanzmarkt, im Kleinen, sozusagen, den jemand, der ihn nutzen kann, auch nutzen wird, um sich selbst in die bestmögliche Position zu bringen,wenn er/sie nicht davon, durch Regeln abgehalten wird.
Es gibt, so glaube ich, keinen SPORT der so sehr durch Finanzen kaputtgemacht wird, wie Boxen.
Rocco
Bankspieler
Wie kann man dann der Bessere sein? tzz
Jupp, das war schon immer so. Gibt übrigens ein paar bekannte Leute, die sich 'ne Reform des Sports auf die Fahne geschrieben haben (McCain z.B.).
treize
Bankspieler
Was ich mich seit längerem frage ist, ob das wirklich schon immer so war, und wir, dadurch dass das Internet uns tagtäglich neue Informationen 'gibt', einfach kritischer geworden sind, oder ob es - AAACHTUUUNG, jetzt kommt die bewusste Superpoente - 'früher alles besser', somit nicht ganz so finanzdiktiert, war?
Diese Idee - die, der 'Überinformiertheit' -warfen ja schon ein paar andere, in anderen Zusammenhängen ein.
Ne, war früher auch schon so. Einfach mal ein paar Artikel zum IBC-Monopol usw. lesen.
RealDealer
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ich versteh das schon,wie er es meinte......
Das ist jetzt ein witz oder?
Ich erklär es mal langsam. Fünf boxer kämpfen.
Fighter 1 Gewinnt gegen fighter 3,4 und 5 aber verliert gegen 2. Fighter 2 gewinnt gegen fighter 1 aber verliert gegen fighter 3, 4 und 5.
Wer ist der bessere?
Oder noch einfacher: Wenn die nummer 100 im tennis nen guten tag hat die nummer 2 besiegt, ist sie dann besser als die nummer 2?
Ich hoffe das macht es klar