Big Shot Rob
Nachwuchsspieler
- Beiträge
- 8.239
- Punkte
- 83
Wie wichtig Nash für die Suns Offensive ist, konnte man gestern sehen, auch ich als Dirk-Voter . Aber zweimal MVP ist natürlich für alle anderen Stars hart...
ManuGinobili schrieb:ALso gestern hat der englische Kommentator es eigentlich gut erklärt. Klar, das System der Suns usw. aber Nash ist nunmal der Antrieb und Lenker dieses Systems. Das muss man einsehen.
ManuGinobili schrieb:Die Frage ist nur ob diese Aufgabe, die er sehr gut bewältigt ihn zum MVP macht und da sehe ich andere vorne.
Big Shot Rob schrieb:Aber zweimal MVP ist natürlich für alle anderen Stars hart...
TraveCortex schrieb:Nash mit fast 3x sovielen Zweitstimmen wie Nowitzki? Ein Witz. Aber das Ergebnis ist nicht wirklich aussagekräftig würde ich sagen,da viele vielleicht nochmal umschwenken,und nur ein Drittel befragt wurde. Trotzdem gibt uns diese Übersicht schonmal eine beunruhigende Tendenz...
Fro schrieb:Ich denke mal, man sollte Steve Francis auch noch Außenseiterchancen einräumen. Kaum wurde er aus Orlando weggetradet, fingen wir das Siegen an.
Und der Most-Dominant-Ever Shaq 1x. :lol:TraveCortex schrieb:Ein 2-maliger MVP Steve Nash? Jason Kidd-0x MVP.Gary Payton-0x MVP.
stillwater schrieb:Und der Most-Dominant-Ever Shaq 1x. :lol:
http://www.dallasbasketball.com/headline_A.asp?pr=Dallasbasketball.com schrieb:Dirk Debunking
Top 10 Reasons UberMan Is MVP
By David Lord -- DallasBasketball.com
DB.com's Mike Fisher and ESPN's Ric Bucher have engaged in quite a lively debate about Dirk Nowitzki's MVP candidacy. Again Sunday, in a 111-95 tune-up-for-the-playoffs victory over the visiting Jazz, Dirk did his part in 10 -- count 'em, 10 -- even more lively ways.
Nowitzki, despite generally cruising through this game (before finishing with 22 points, seven rebounds and four assists), went step by step to something Bucher told Fish:
"I still haven't come up with an acronym to describe Dirk's MVPness, but he certainly is an unorthodox candidate. He doesn't break people down off the dribble and he doesn't post up to draw double teams, which, in one way or another, every other candidate does. That's a big part of what makes them so valuable. The best part of his game is as a face-up or step-back jump shooter, and you can't name another MVP in the history of the game who had that as his calling card. But looking at the tremendous success of the Mavs, despite a ton of injuries, with the one constant being Dirk, I'm willing to take a second look before I make up my mind.''
Dirk debunked the above with sweat and skill. I'll debunk the above with pen and ink (or whatever the electronic version of that is):
I say all of the above is nuts. How about just a few rational points? My 10 points for Bucher and other Dirk Detractors, some as a reply, some as a request that they consider all the relevant facts.
1. "He doesn't break people down off the dribble..." - Total nonsense. He probably does this as much or more than any BIG MAN in the league. Running lefty baby hook, spin moves, etc. But yes, he's a forward - not a swingman - so his game is not PRIMARILY about "beating people off the dribble" like a guard. If you want a player to break down people off the dribble like Kobe before they can get an MVP vote, then you are disqualifying every big man from consideration. (As Fish noted, somebody better go back and strip bare the trophy rooms of Kareem, Shaq, Wilt, Moses, Hakeem and Russell.)
2. "He doesn't post up to draw double teams" - More rubbish. He does it all the time and draws double teams. But he doesnt have to get within 8 feet to get doubled - he also draws double teams on the PERIMETER, which opens up the court even more. And he passes the ball to the cutter - unless he has some paired munchkins helpless to stop him from making an easy mid-range shot. In which case, I don't WANT Dirk to pass.
3. "He is unorthodox" - He is different in a good way - because you cannot guard him with a big man (or he will go right by him "off the dribble") or a small man (he will shoot over him and bury jumper after jumper. In the last 10 days, he has completely abused the defense of Duncan - arguably one of the best big men defenders in the league - and then Artest, Bowen, Marion - arguably 3 of the best perimeter defenders. The fact he can't be guarded is different, but let's don't try to paint it as bad.
4. "The best part of his game is as a face-up or step-back jump shooter, and you can't name another MVP in the history of the game who had that as his calling card." - If you believe this, you just disqualified yourself from being a voter. Ever hear of Larry Bird? Those were HIS offensive moves before Dirk. I watched them game after game. Bucher must have watched the Celtics as little as he watches the Mavs.
5. Don't overlook Dirk's rebounding. That is very orthodox - and superior. To focus on his offensive prowess alone is to miss a major part of why he makes this team so much better.
6. He also is an effective defender these days. Best in the league, nope. But effective. So much so that it gets commented on regularly by the opposition that has to play against him. If you don't notice that addition to his game, you are basing your evaluation of his MVP candidacy this year on his play from 3-4 years ago.
7. "But looking at the tremendous success of the Mavs, despite a ton of injuries, with the one constant being Dirk..." - NOW you are finally beginning to get it. You win 60 games -- which this team did Sunday, tying the franchise record set by the 2002-03 club that reached the WCF -- then there is someone driving that bus. There is no Shawn Marion on this team to take the load off of Dirk (like Nash has), no Parker (like Duncan has), no Shaq (like Wade has), no Wallace-Wallace-Hamilton (like Billups has). This team has been beset by one injury after another - and it has won consistently all year - with Dirk as the lone constant. He has adjusted his game to fit with a varying cast around him from one game to the next - and excelled with incredible consistency, in a way that has brought a W-L record that is right at the top this year.
8. Up, up, up, no matter what -- Last year Dirk starred without Nash, and the record went UP in spite of taking an MVP off the team. This year Finley (the other member of the Big 3) is gone, and the Mavs record again went UP. That is putting a team on your back and making it a winner.
9. He's a Lone Star -- There are other teams that only have one star, namely LA (Kobe) and Cleveland (LeBron). But those teams are winning 50, perhaps. The Mavs, with one star, are winning 60. That is a huge difference (20% more wins). The Mavs are the only top level team with just one guy doing the heavy lifting, and that guy is Dirk. Thats why he deserves to be the MVP this year.
10. If we are talking about value, isn't that measured by winning? Or do we play the games to see who can get the best stat line? It's about winning. To win, some players have to toss stats in the trash - you can't jack up 40 shots a game like Kobe and win tons of games. You have to spread it around - and stats suffer. If you look at the top 3 teams which have separated from the pack all year and award the MVP to a winner (rather than a stat guy), then what player on those teams has had to do it alone without another star, and has had the best year? There are only 4 players on those 3 teams that should even be mentioned as valid MVP possibilities, and Dirk's year is clearly better than Billups', better than Duncan's, better than Parker's. That's also why he deserves to be the MVP this year.
Kobe 8 schrieb:Der im übrigen 10-mal die MVP-Trophy hätte gewinnen können, wenn er sich mal zusammengerissen und nicht zu sehr auf seine Rap-Alben oder Hollywood-Filmchen konzentriert hätte.
Redemption schrieb:Guck' euch mal die Liste der Spieler an, die mehr als einmal die MVP-Trophy bekommen haben:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Michael Jordan - Bill Russell - Wilt Chamberlain - Larry Bird - Magic Johnson - Moses Malone - Tim Duncan - Karl Malone - Bob Pettit - (Steve Nash ?)
Mindest 6 Spieler davon gehören zu Top10 der besten NBA-Spieler aller Zeiten. Der Rest im schlimmsten Fall Top20.
TraveCortex schrieb:Genau. Wer Steve Nash dieses Jahr zum MVP macht,der wird ihn auch zu den besten 20 Spielern aller Zeiten zählen müssen,zumindest zu den besten 50-da gehört er aber nunmal einfach nicht rein. Mit 2x MVP-Würdigung müsste man ihn aber auf jeden Fall da rein zählen, und da erkenne ich einen fundermentalen Widerspruch.
HermesPhettberg schrieb:Man muss doch jetzt auch einmal aufhören sich ständig darüber aufzuregen, dass Nash zum engen Kreis auf den MVP gehört.
HermesPhettberg schrieb:]Man kann eh nichts daran ändern und ob er es nun wird oder nicht werden wir in 2 Wochen wissen.
HermesPhettberg schrieb:]denn Kobe fehlt einfach die gute Saisonbilanz, Lebron ist vielleicht noch zu jung für viele Journalisten um diesen Titel zu bekommen, Dirk hat die die Reputaion in den Staaten
HermesPhettberg schrieb:]und da Nash eben eine genauso gute Saison hatte wie im vergangenen Jahr, warum sollten sie ihm die Trophy da nicht geben?
HermesPhettberg schrieb:]Egal welche Entscheidung fallen dürfte ob nun Nash, Dirk, Kobe und James. Ich denke man könnte mit jeder davon ganz gut leben.
HermesPhettberg schrieb:Wo steht geschrieben dass ein 2 facher MVP auch zu den ebsten Spielern aller Zeiten zählen muss? Vielleicht ist die Konkurrenz in manchen Jahren einfach schwächer so dass gewisse Titel eben leichter zu erringen sind?!