Fro schrieb:
@Tyson
Ein Trade mit den Bulls wäre sicherlich eine Möglichkeit, ich denke aber nicht, daß Nocioni ein Target der FO wäre. Dazu haben wir auf der 3 momentan einfach zuviele Spieler, zu denen Nocioni nicht zwingend ein Upgrade darstellen würde. Bei Deng könnte man aber vielleicht reden.
Das musst du mir erklären. Hedo Turkoglu ist ein SG/SF, Grant Hill desöfteren verletzt. Andres Nocioni ist eine Verstärkung für den Kampfgeist des Teams, die Defense und das Perimeter Shooting. Ich habe einen Trade auf einem amerikanischen Forum gepostet und warte auf weitere Resonanz.
Chicago Bulls trade:
2006 Bulls' 1st-round draft pick (between #7-#11)
2007 Bulls' 2nd-round draft pick
Andres Nocioni
Michael Sweetney
Orlando Magic trade:
DeShawn Stevenson (re-signed, if Paxson likes him)
2006 Magic' 1st-round draft pick (between #3-#7)
Why for Orlando: They trade down in order to pick up Reddick, who will still be available at #10. They get a player in Andres Nocioni, who they have a use for. He provides them with toughness, defense and 3pt shooting. Nocioni, Howard and Milicic would be a defensive nightmare for other teams. DeShawn Stevenson would make the swap of contracts work.
1) Jameer Nelson - Carlos Arroyo - Travis Diener
2) Hedo Turkoglu - JJ Reddick - Keyon Dooling
3) Grant Hill - Andres Nocioni - Pat Garrity
4) Dwight Howard - Michael Sweetney - Fran Vasquez (later then)
5) Darko Milicic - Tony Battie - Mario Kasun
Why for Chicago: They would get their hands on another big man. Orlando ain't able to provide enough minutes for their big men, when there are already the Double Ds, Tony Battie and later then Fran Vasquez in place, that's why they may trade down. Losing Nocioni hurts, but Deng is our future Small forward anyway. This trade would fill some holes in the backcourt (DeShawn Stevenson is known for above average defense and some scoring) and in the frontcourt. Paxson wouldn't have to think twice about re-signing Nocioni (due to Deng) with this deal.
1) Kirk Hinrich - Chris Duhon - Jannero Pargo
2) Ben Gordon - DeShawn Stevenson - Eddie Basden
3) Luol Deng - FA (Peja?, Songaila?, Nailon?)
4) Tyrus Thomas - LaMarcus Aldridge - Othella Harrington
5) Tyson Chandler - Antonio Davis - Luke Schenscher
Q & A:
sk33 wrote:
How exactly do the Bulls land both Aldridge and Thomas?
RAI: The Magic are known for draft luck!
Say, if we get the 2nd overall pick via New York and the 4th overall pick via Orlando, we have the choice to pick up either Bargnani, Noah, Thomas or Aldridge. That's a scenario many of us Bulls Fans aspire.
sk33 wrote:
Why would they want to give up a solid as hell backup SF in this unlikely equation?
RAI: Unlikely? An Orlando mod, stickemupco ("If they can get Redick still; Im all for that") just came over there to say that he would like it a lot.
sk33 wrote:
Why would they want Stevenson on squad?
RAI: We get him! He would be a solid 4th guard to round up the rotation. We don't know whether Brewer, Roy or Collins will be able to do just that. This scenario reduces the gambling just on drafting Bigs, which is much more worthwhile then drafting guards, that may or not be NBA caliber players.
sk33 wrote:
I think Chicago would be *much* better off targetting Aldridge or Thomas + Brandon Roy. If you have to move up, that's the person you should move up for.
RAI: If Brandon Roy is as good as advertised, he won't be available at #11, where we currently stand.
sk33 wrote:
In free agency, there are starting quality PF's available.
RAI: My scenario is much cheaper, now and in the next 5 years. 2 Rookie Bigs on Rookie contracts, who have the potential to be better than Gooden, Harrington and Nene plus a 4th guard to round up the rotation is just what the doctor ordered.
sk33 wrote:
You'd end up with:
Hinrich/Duhon
Gordon/Roy
Deng/Nocioni
Free Agent (Nene, Gooden, Wilcox) / Tyrus Thomas
Chandler/Free Agent (Nazr, A.D., etc)
RAI: I like my lineup better, because it's much cheaper and we save our money to resign Hinrich, Gordon, Deng and others in the future. This free agency ain't good enough to spend a big amount of money.
dougthonus wrote:
Not out of the realm of possibility depending on where the picks fall.
I think the Bulls would need to move up at least 5-6 spots (and really want someone there) to give up Nocioni.
RAI: 5-6 spots are exactly the advantage we gain with this picks. This may mean LaMarcus Aldridge or Tyrus Thomas instead of Ronnie Brewer, JJ Reddick or Shelden Williams.
Don't forget that Nocioni is a (unrestricted?) free agent next year. We may have to get in an unnecessary bidding war for him and have to overpay for him (7-8m$ per season). Orlando has enough flexibilty in 2007 to due the capspace they have assembled.
dougthonus wrote:
However, the Bulls don't value Sweetney much and I'm sure the Magic don't value Stevenson much. The Bulls have more future 2nds than they really need, so that's not really a stumbling block either.
RAI: Sweetney for Stevenson is a wash. They need a backup Power forward in the mold of Sweetney and we need a backup Shooting guard in the mold of Stevenson. A 2nd-rounder may make this scenario more tempting to Orlando.
dougthonus wrote:
It's basically:
Orlando 1st for Bulls 1st + Noc.
If Paxson really likes someone around pick #5 then that deal could make a heck of a lot of sense for us.
RAI: Nocioni would fit very nicely into Orlando's young team. He's the reason why they would trade down. In order to get quality, you have to sacrifice quality.
FRO schrieb:
Ich habe allerdings schon gehört, daß man wohl versuchen wird, evt. noch einen zweiten Pick zu bekommen, weil man in der Region zwischen 13-20 noch einen Spieler auf dem Zettel hat: Nämlich Rudy Fernandez, den man im Moment für diese Regionen wohl auch noch vor Redick hat, für welchen man aber auch noch einen zweiten Pick in diesen Regionen würde benutzen wollen.
Wen willst du für einen Pick zwischen 13 und 20 abgeben? Denkst du, dass z.B. Arroyo Fernandez einbringen würde?