Maske vs. Hill - Onlinescoring, Nachbesprechung etc...


speedclem

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:jubel:

Ich fand den "klasse", der hat sogar die 3. und 4. Runde an Maske gegeben, sowas nenn ich Dreistigkeit!

Nur die ersten beiden waren dann sogar ihm zuuuuu eindeutig!

Tja so leids mir tut, die 4. kann man durchaus Maske geben, zum Schluss war er da besser. Remis auch ok, für Hill, würd auch gerad so gehen, wenig Aktionen eben.
 

The_Fan

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Sorry, mit der 12. bist du definitiv falsch. Wie willst Du die ihm geben, fürs VERSUCHEN?
Bin ja nun wahrlich Maskekritisch, aber die hat er gehabt.

Jetzt du auch noch...

Ich will ja die 12. Runde gar nicht als Argument nehmen, dass Hill besser war.
Mir ist schon klar, dass Maske sich da des Sieges sicher war und nur noch auf Nummer sicher gehen wollte.

Aber die Runde muss normal mitgezählt werden und, guckt sie euch doch an, Hill ist in dieser Runde aktiver, schlägt mehr und trifft mehr. Ich weiß nicht, was ihr da seht. Maske hat zwei bis drei Kontertreffer, mehr nicht!

Wie man diese Runde an Maske geben kann, ist mir ein Rätsel.
Sorry.
 

cool74

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Wie willst du denn ein Draw für einen unterlegenen Hill rechtfertigen? Nur weil 117/110 zu hoch ist, darf man dem Sieger den Sieg nicht absprechen:wavey:

Hast du probleme mit lesen?Ich hab doch geschrieben das ich mit nem Maske sieg leben kan.Nur der 110-117 mit puncktabzug ist viel zu hoch.

Ausserdem hab ich kein bock mich mit usern(hobby Tenniser und co ) zu streiten die sich hier alleine bei einem Beyer fight, Schulz,Maske comeback melden und dan wiederum sang und klanglos verschwinden.Bei denen boxen nur ein begriff hatt,Schulz,Maske.Beyer.
 

Di Michele

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Aber die Runde muss normal mitgezählt werden und, guckt sie euch doch an, Hill ist in dieser Runde aktiver, schlägt mehr und trifft mehr. Ich weiß nicht, was ihr da seht. Maske hat zwei bis drei Kontertreffer, mehr nicht!

.
:skepsis:

Wenn man die Treffer nicht sieht lohnt sich auch keine Diskussion.
 

hundertwasser

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- 1. Runde
- 2. Runde
- 3. Runde
- 4. Runde
- 6. Runde
- 12. Runde
- Punktabzug Maske

Müsste reichen, oder?

Sag doch gleich, dass Maske sämtliche Profirunden seiner Karriere verloren hat. Wenn man dann noch miteinrechnet, dass all seine Gegner Flaschen waren und er als Amateur vollgepumt mit Doping war, dann geht´s dir richtig gut.

Ach noch was:
Ausser gegen Virgil Hill würde Maske gegen jeden Cruisergewichtler in den Top 300 KO gehen.

Noch was?
Bedankt bei Hill hat er sich auch nicht und Geld hat er auch noch kassiert für´s rumstehen im Ring.

:laugh2:
 

Tom_Tocca

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Immerhin kennt Maske seinen Platz in der Geschichte des dt. Boxsports:

Die überschwänglichen Lobeshymnen auf seinen Erfolg bewertete Henry Maske trotz seiner Freude sehr nüchtern. Gar nichts anfangen konnte er mit Aussagen, nach denen er der neue Max Schmeling sei. Maske: "Ich bin stolz darauf, von Max Schmeling als Freund bezeichnet worden zu sein. Aber es wird nie einem zweiten Max Schmeling geben."
 

The_Fan

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Noch was?
Bedankt bei Hill hat er sich auch nicht und Geld hat er auch noch kassiert für´s rumstehen im Ring.

Hast noch vergessen die Farce mit dem Dank an die Sponsoren zu nennen, verbunden mit weiterer Kohle für ihn!

Ansonsten ist es nicht so falsch, da bringt dir auch deine Ironie nichts.

Aber noch mal: Wenn das Urteil in Ordnung gewesen wäre, wär mir hier das alles egal!
 

Kompetenzmann

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und jetzt ??
trotzdem bleibt Maske der 10 mal bessere Boxer.

Ich glaube einige haben hier ein Problem damit Maske Respekt zu zollen ,weil er einfach für die "Gatti Ward" Fans uninteressant ist.
Die wollen eben kein Sicherheitsboxen sehen sondern den offenen Krieg.
Diese Leute wollen es nicht wahr haben das solche Boxer wie Maske Erfolg haben und in seiner prime einer der besten LHW der letzten 20 Jahre war.

:thumb: So siehts aus.
 

Sparrow69

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Also auf Hill`s offizieller Website www.virgilquicksilverhill.com kann man abstimmen wer den Kampf gewonnen hat. Aktuell haben 57% für Maske gestimmt, 40% für Hill und 1,5% haben ein unentschieden gesehen.

Unter News findet man außerdem einen Kampfbericht. Danach soll Hill 11 Runden gewonnen haben:

Maske Decisions Hill
- By Miguel Velasco

Former German boxing hero, Henry Maske (31-1, 11 knockouts), in possibly one of the most boring fights I’ve ever seen in my life, won a 12-round decision over Virgil Hill, the WBA cruiserweight champion, on Saturday night in Munich's Olympic Hall, in Germany. The final judges’ scores were 117-110, 116-113, and 117-110, all given for Maske, who was making his ring return after 10 years away from the sport. He probably should have stayed retired, because he fought like someone who was shadow boxing with air rather than an actual fighter. When the final judge’ decision was announced, I shocked, to say the least, because Hill had put on a virtuoso performance, badly out-boxing Maske the entire fight.

Unlike the judges, I had Hill winning 11 rounds to 1, and I was being very generous by giving Maske the one round, because he did next to nothing all fight, rarely throwing punches other than badly aimed jabs. In fact, Maske looked more like a statue out there than actual fighter, often standing completely still for long moments, studying Hill with a look of seemingly great concentration on his face that somehow made him look deranged.

On the other hand, Hill did most of the work in the bout, landing a large amount of powerful body shots, and a sizable amount of right hands to the head. To be frank, if it weren’t for Hill’s aggression, there wouldn’t have been a fight at all, since Maske wasn’t showing much interest in making a fight of it until the 10th round.

All before that, as far as I could tell, Maske came close to winning none of the rounds. He did, however, throw a lot of pretty jabs at the air, badly missing Hill’s face by 2-3 inches every time. It didn’t matter, though, because the German fans shouted their heads off, mindlessly oblivious to the fact that Maske was missing Hill with his jabs and hitting only air.

Round after round, it went like this, Maske throwing exclusively jabs, missing 99% of them, and the German insanely roaring on each miss. Clearly, Maske was afraid of being countered by Hill, otherwise he’d have let himself get closer to Hill so that his jabs - again, his only weapon in the fight – could land. As for what he showed in the fight, it wasn’t very much, to be kind. Maske’s timing was shot, speed was gone – and his power was nonexistent... not that he ever had any to begin with.

In point of fact, Maske looked like a fighter only in physical form, but not in action. I’ve seen some of his older fights, and though I wasn’t impressed with him, at least back then, 10 plus years ago, he could actually fight some, especially when fighting a slow-moving European fighter – his typical opponent. Way back, in his past, Maske could land punches, even with his jab. As for now, in 2007, all I can say is, those 10 years away from the ring took with it any of the limited skills that Maske ever had, turning him into caricature of his former self.

Now, don’t get me wrong or misinterpret what I’m saying. Maske did do something well on Saturday night, for instance, he showed good form in clinches. In fact, from the rounds 10-12, that’s mainly what Maske did, mostly clinching. Whenever Hill got close to him, Maske often dove at him, grabbing him in a tight embrace, causing the referee to pry them apart, and chastise him about holding. Besides this, Maske displayed excellent form on hitting on the break, something he did on a number of occasions in the later rounds. When, however, Maske actually was initiating any kind of an offensive attack, he looked wild and amateurish, running at Hill and wildly flailing both arms like a grade school child. Aside from, perhaps, Axel Schultz, I’d never seen fighting like that before in professional boxing, and I hope never to see it again. Any how, enough of Maske, I think you get the point.

As for the action of the fight, each round was in essence the same, and at all times, painfully boring to watch and seemingly like punishment. In rounds 1-9, Virgil Hill - looking incredibly young and sharp for 43 - would throw jabs and hooks, for the most part, to Maske’s chest and midsection, rarely bothering with punches to the head. Maske, on the other hand, was often slow to respond to the attacks, and would either push Hill away or grab him. Like I mentioned previously, Maske mostly threw jabs, particularly in the first nine rounds. The jabs looked nice, but they were so badly missing, it gave the appearance that Maske was auditioning for a Rocky movie, perhaps as a poor man’s version of Ivan Drago. Maske certainly had the robotic thing going, standing and fighting like he had a stick stuffed up his backside, and he couldn’t get it out.

At first, I thought that Maske would make corrections, seeing that his jabs were coming up short, and would get a little nearer to Hill, allowing them to make contact with Hill’s face. Strangely enough, Maske never did correct his bad aim, perhaps figuring that if the German crowd – 19,000 strong - is shouting and screaming for his every punch, it must mean they think he’s connecting. Little did they know, Maske couldn’t hit the side of a barn if he was right in front of it.

In the eighth round, Hill received a large cut above his left eyebrow after butting heads with Maske. It was a bad cut, with lots of blood, causing the referee to stop the action and have the ringside doctor take a look it. In the meantime, the referee docked a point from Maske, although I don’t know why, because it seemed more initiated by Hill than by any move on Maske’s part. After looking at the cut for a few seconds, the doctor allowed Hill to continue fighting. The cut, however, would bleed badly for the rest of the bout, covering both fighters in blood and giving Hill a ghoulish appearance.

So, the fight went like this, round after round, until finally in the 10th round, Maske seemed to summon up a little courage, enough to actually throw a few punches other than his usual, wildly thrown jabs. Incredibly, he even landed with a couple of them, for instance, when Hill threw a punch and missed, leaving him balance and bent over. Not to miss out on such an opportunity, Maske launched an all out assault when Hill’s back was turned, and thus was able to land several punches before Hill could right himself and regain his balance. Sure, it wasn’t pretty, but what the heck, it worked for Maske, and the Germans loved it.

Near the end of the 10th round, Maske was able to corner Hill against the ropes, and land several punches, although none of them were what you would call hard shots, but since Hill did very little in this round, it was enough for me to give the round to Maske.

In the 11th and 12th rounds, Maske began to hold a lot, so often that he was repeatedly warned by the referee. It looked awful to watch, reminding me a lot of a typical fight with John Ruiz, filled with clinches. During this round, Maske would throw punch, and regardless of whether it landed or not, he would immediately grab for Hill and start trying to wrestle him to the ground, bending him to and fro.

Hill, showing that he was a true professional, didn’t get annoyed by the constant clinching, instead landing powerful hooks, and jabs. If it weren’t for all of Maske’s wrestling and clinching in the final two rounds, he would have had a decent chance at winning these rounds. However, his behavior seemed as if he was trying to just survive the rounds without taking punishment. I thought it was stupid for him to do this, but then again, the fight was in Germany, so he probably thought the fight was in the bag and wanted to coast the rest of the way.

Afterwards, when the fight was Maske was awarded the decision by the judges, he seemed to lose all his sense, moving around constantly in ring, looking slightly crazed, and barking barely understandable German nonstop. Even when being interviewed afterwards, he paced back in forth, rapidly, looking around and sniffing the air. It looked odd. For someone who, in my book, was easily beaten in a one-sided fight, he strutted around the ring like peacock, seeming both incredibly arrogant, and out of touch with the reality of the fight.

It was around this time that someone foolishly handed him a microphone, so that he could address the entire German audience, at which point he started blathering about this and that, boring the audience with his long-winded speech. In fact, it went on so long, it seemed like a presidential address, and I was hoping he would just shut up already. Finally, the announcer, perhaps getting tired of listening to him, too, snatched the microphone out of his hands before he could put the entire audience to sleep. Some of the audience, however, was in rapture, Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko, both seemed near tears with his great accomplishment, as were Darius Michalzewski and Markus Beyer. As for me, I was sickened by the whole thing.
 

The_Fan

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Sag mal Martin, wie ist das eigentlich mit der Wette, von der ich zuletzt mal flüchtig gelesen habe:

Wenn Chagaev gegen Valuev gewinnt, gehst du und kommst auch nie wieder hierhin zurück?
 

markus1234

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Maske Decisions Hill
- By Miguel Velasco

Former German boxing hero, Henry Maske (31-1, 11 knockouts), in possibly one of the most boring fights I’ve ever seen in my life, won a 12-round decision over Virgil Hill, the WBA cruiserweight champion, on Saturday night in Munich's Olympic Hall, in Germany. The final judges’ scores were 117-110, 116-113, and 117-110, all given for Maske, who was making his ring return after 10 years away from the sport. He probably should have stayed retired, because he fought like someone who was shadow boxing with air rather than an actual fighter. When the final judge’ decision was announced, I shocked, to say the least, because Hill had put on a virtuoso performance, badly out-boxing Maske the entire fight.

Unlike the judges, I had Hill winning 11 rounds to 1, and I was being very generous by giving Maske the one round, because he did next to nothing all fight, rarely throwing punches other than badly aimed jabs. In fact, Maske looked more like a statue out there than actual fighter, often standing completely still for long moments, studying Hill with a look of seemingly great concentration on his face that somehow made him look deranged.

On the other hand, Hill did most of the work in the bout, landing a large amount of powerful body shots, and a sizable amount of right hands to the head. To be frank, if it weren’t for Hill’s aggression, there wouldn’t have been a fight at all, since Maske wasn’t showing much interest in making a fight of it until the 10th round.

All before that, as far as I could tell, Maske came close to winning none of the rounds. He did, however, throw a lot of pretty jabs at the air, badly missing Hill’s face by 2-3 inches every time. It didn’t matter, though, because the German fans shouted their heads off, mindlessly oblivious to the fact that Maske was missing Hill with his jabs and hitting only air.

Round after round, it went like this, Maske throwing exclusively jabs, missing 99% of them, and the German insanely roaring on each miss. :jubel: Clearly, Maske was afraid of being countered by Hill, otherwise he’d have let himself get closer to Hill so that his jabs - again, his only weapon in the fight – could land. As for what he showed in the fight, it wasn’t very much, to be kind. Maske’s timing was shot, speed was gone – and his power was nonexistent... not that he ever had any to begin with.

In point of fact, Maske looked like a fighter only in physical form, but not in action. I’ve seen some of his older fights, and though I wasn’t impressed with him, at least back then, 10 plus years ago, he could actually fight some, especially when fighting a slow-moving European fighter – his typical opponent. Way back, in his past, Maske could land punches, even with his jab. As for now, in 2007, all I can say is, those 10 years away from the ring took with it any of the limited skills that Maske ever had, turning him into caricature of his former self.

Now, don’t get me wrong or misinterpret what I’m saying. Maske did do something well on Saturday night, for instance, he showed good form in clinches. In fact, from the rounds 10-12, that’s mainly what Maske did, mostly clinching. Whenever Hill got close to him, Maske often dove at him, grabbing him in a tight embrace, causing the referee to pry them apart, and chastise him about holding. Besides this, Maske displayed excellent form on hitting on the break, something he did on a number of occasions in the later rounds. When, however, Maske actually was initiating any kind of an offensive attack, he looked wild and amateurish, running at Hill and wildly flailing both arms like a grade school child. Aside from, perhaps, Axel Schultz, I’d never seen fighting like that before in professional boxing, and I hope never to see it again. Any how, enough of Maske, I think you get the point.

As for the action of the fight, each round was in essence the same, and at all times, painfully boring to watch and seemingly like punishment. In rounds 1-9, Virgil Hill - looking incredibly young and sharp for 43 - would throw jabs and hooks, for the most part, to Maske’s chest and midsection, rarely bothering with punches to the head. Maske, on the other hand, was often slow to respond to the attacks, and would either push Hill away or grab him. :thumb: Like I mentioned previously, Maske mostly threw jabs, particularly in the first nine rounds. The jabs looked nice, but they were so badly missing, it gave the appearance that Maske was auditioning for a Rocky movie, perhaps as a poor man’s version of Ivan Drago. Maske certainly had the robotic thing going, standing and fighting like he had a stick stuffed up his backside, and he couldn’t get it out.

At first, I thought that Maske would make corrections, seeing that his jabs were coming up short, and would get a little nearer to Hill, allowing them to make contact with Hill’s face. Strangely enough, Maske never did correct his bad aim, perhaps figuring that if the German crowd – 19,000 strong - is shouting and screaming for his every punch, it must mean they think he’s connecting. Little did they know, Maske couldn’t hit the side of a barn if he was right in front of it.

In the eighth round, Hill received a large cut above his left eyebrow after butting heads with Maske. It was a bad cut, with lots of blood, causing the referee to stop the action and have the ringside doctor take a look it. In the meantime, the referee docked a point from Maske, although I don’t know why, because it seemed more initiated by Hill than by any move on Maske’s part. After looking at the cut for a few seconds, the doctor allowed Hill to continue fighting. The cut, however, would bleed badly for the rest of the bout, covering both fighters in blood and giving Hill a ghoulish appearance.

So, the fight went like this, round after round, until finally in the 10th round, Maske seemed to summon up a little courage, enough to actually throw a few punches other than his usual, wildly thrown jabs. Incredibly, he even landed with a couple of them, for instance, when Hill threw a punch and missed, leaving him balance and bent over. Not to miss out on such an opportunity, Maske launched an all out assault when Hill’s back was turned, and thus was able to land several punches before Hill could right himself and regain his balance. Sure, it wasn’t pretty, but what the heck, it worked for Maske, and the Germans loved it.

Near the end of the 10th round, Maske was able to corner Hill against the ropes, and land several punches, although none of them were what you would call hard shots, but since Hill did very little in this round, it was enough for me to give the round to Maske.

In the 11th and 12th rounds, Maske began to hold a lot, so often that he was repeatedly warned by the referee. It looked awful to watch, reminding me a lot of a typical fight with John Ruiz, filled with clinches. During this round, Maske would throw punch, and regardless of whether it landed or not, he would immediately grab for Hill and start trying to wrestle him to the ground, bending him to and fro.

Hill, showing that he was a true professional, didn’t get annoyed by the constant clinching, instead landing powerful hooks, and jabs. If it weren’t for all of Maske’s wrestling and clinching in the final two rounds, he would have had a decent chance at winning these rounds. However, his behavior seemed as if he was trying to just survive the rounds without taking punishment. I thought it was stupid for him to do this, but then again, the fight was in Germany, so he probably thought the fight was in the bag and wanted to coast the rest of the way.

Afterwards, when the fight was Maske was awarded the decision by the judges, he seemed to lose all his sense, moving around constantly in ring, looking slightly crazed, and barking barely understandable German nonstop. Even when being interviewed afterwards, he paced back in forth, rapidly, looking around and sniffing the air. It looked odd. For someone who, in my book, was easily beaten in a one-sided fight, he strutted around the ring like peacock, seeming both incredibly arrogant,and out of touch with the reality of the fight.

It was around this time that someone foolishly handed him a microphone, so that he could address the entire German audience, at which point he started blathering about this and that, boring the audience with his long-winded speech. In fact, it went on so long, it seemed like a presidential address, and I was hoping he would just shut up already. Finally, the announcer, perhaps getting tired of listening to him, too, snatched the microphone out of his hands before he could put the entire audience to sleep. :jubel: Some of the audience, however, was in rapture, Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko, both seemed near tears with his great accomplishment, as were Darius Michalzewski and Markus Beyer. As for me, I was sickened by the whole thing.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
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martin1980

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na da haben sich ja drei spezialisten gefunden .:clown:
der analyst , der wettspezialist und der begriffsstuzige.panik:


Wenn Chagaev gegen Valuev gewinnt, gehst du und kommst auch nie wieder hierhin zurück?

ist nicht ganz richtig.
der user chagaev geht, wenn der boxer chagaev demnächst verliert.;)
 

Kompetenzmann

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Mir war ja bisher dein "Tiger über alles"-Gehabe wirklich egal - aber solch einen Bericht als gut zu empfinden zeugt von totalen Unwissen in Sachen Boxen...dagegen ist ja Jisi´s "Wladi ist ein ATG"-Getue noch harmlos...

Tom das hast du sehr gut erkannt.:thumb: Er als als Fan des Polen mag Maske anscheinend nicht sonderlich und versucht Maske schlechter zu machen als er ist. Ich dagegen schätze beide Kämpfer und mag sie beide und versuche objektiv zu sein, das würde ich ihm auch raten.:belehr:
 

The_Fan

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Mir war ja bisher dein "Tiger über alles"-Gehabe wirklich egal - aber solch einen Bericht als gut zu empfinden zeugt von totalen Unwissen in Sachen Boxen...dagegen ist ja Jisi´s "Wladi ist ein ATG"-Getue noch harmlos...

Naja, ich finde auch, das Urteil in diesem Bericht von 11:1 Runden für Hill ist unrealistisch, übertrieben und ich meine auch, man sollte sich auf so etwas nicht stützen, weil in diesem Artikel einfach jegliche Objektivität fehlt.

Allerdings muss man festhalten, dass das Urteil der beiden Punktrichter mit 117:110, also 10:2 Runden für Maske genauso unrealistisch ist!

Und was ist besser: Ein realitätsfremdes und subjektives Urteil von einem Bericht aus dem Land des Boxers oder ein solches von den Punktrichtern :confused:
 

LinksundRechts

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Hast du probleme mit lesen?Ich hab doch geschrieben das ich mit nem Maske sieg leben kan.Nur der 110-117 mit puncktabzug ist viel zu hoch.

Ausserdem hab ich kein bock mich mit usern(hobby Tenniser und co ) zu streiten die sich hier alleine bei einem Beyer fight, Schulz,Maske comeback melden und dan wiederum sang und klanglos verschwinden.Bei denen boxen nur ein begriff hatt,Schulz,Maske.Beyer.

:thumb:
 
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