Sauerland kritisiert Wladimir Klitschko
- Ersteller Di Michele
- Erstellt am
D. Crosby
Gesperrt auf eigenen Wunsch
Das Ergebnis steht also mal wieder fest, egal wie das Ergebnis aussieht.Super-Grimm
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jisi schrieb:
Nix Neues!
D. Crosby schrieb:
Als Klitschko ins Krankenhaus eingeliefert wurde, munkelte man von gar nichts. Da ging es um einen Patienten mit Symptomen., den es zu behandeln galt.
Eine Untersuchung der Atheletic Commission gab es später. Diese führte offenbar zu keinem konkreten Ergebnis.
Aber meine persönliche Meinung beeinflusst dies eben nicht.
Der Kampf fand in den USA statt, der Amerikaner hat gewonnen. Was will man dort mehr?
Magaret Goodman brachte dies in einem Interview auf den Punkt, die Lizenz wurde Wladimir Klitschko auch zurückerteilt.
WK gab seine Versuche auf, weitere Ermittlungen anzustreben. Zuvor hatte er einen Rechtsanwalt eingeschaltet, um die Ermittlung zu forcieren.
Sinngemäß sagte sie folgendes einer amerikanischen Zeitung: Er soll aufhören rumzusuchen, er wurde medizinisch bestens betreut, ist gesund, was will er mehr. Er soll weiterboxen und damit ist die Sache erledigt.
Und so ist es.
D. Crosby
Gesperrt auf eigenen Wunsch
Ja was denn für Symptome?
Benutzername:
Nachwuchsspieler
D. Crosby schrieb:
amerikanische labore stellten übrigens auch bei juschtschenko keinerlei vergiftungen fest. fand das innerhalb dieser erörterung schon erwähnung? beleuchtet vielleicht auch ein wenig den quell des don-king-vergiftungs-gebrodels.
D. Crosby
Gesperrt auf eigenen Wunsch
Gut zu wissen. Damit rückt der KGB in den Kreis der Tatverdächtigen. :clown:
F
Francois
Guest
D. Crosby schrieb:
Du warst halt auch nie beim FBI, im Gegensatz zu unseren special agents Jisi,toto und locker bleiben. :laugh2:
Benutzername:
Nachwuchsspieler
D. Crosby schrieb:
exakt! das bild wird langsam klarer - ich darf kurz resümieren:
- Don King
- Don King jr.
- Fritz Sdunek
- CIA
- FBI
- Mossad
- MI6
- BND
- Volvic
- Saddam Hussein
- Waldemar Hartmann & Sven Ottke
- Franz
und jetzt neu: der KGB
Tja - ich weiß, dass Dir das nicht passt. Aber manchmal muss man unangenehme Dinge halt zur Kenntnis nehmenD. Crosby schrieb:
PS
Nur weil Du mal wieder eine Motivation hinter einer Aussage vermutest, wird die Aussage dadurch nicht falsch und ein Argument nicht entkräftet.
D. Crosby
Gesperrt auf eigenen Wunsch
Totto schrieb:Tja - ich weiß, dass Dir das nicht passt. Aber manchmal muss man unangenehme Dinge halt zur Kenntnis nehmen
PS
Nur weil Du mal wieder eine Motivation hinter einer Aussage vermutest, wird die Aussage dadurch nicht falsch und ein Argument nicht entkräftet.
So unangenehme Dinge, wie das Du Antworten, die dir nicht passen von vorn herein ausschließt? Das habe ich schon lange zur Kenntnis genommen.
Aber halten wir fest: Für dich ist die "Vergiftung" nicht widerlegt, wenn eine medizinische Untersuchung sie nicht bestätigt. Damit ist sie dann de facto nicht widerlegbar.
Competition
Administrator a.D.
So, hier im Trash macht es wenigstens Spaß, auf etwas zu antworten, was für den "Planeten Klitschko" schon viel zu schlecht wäre :laugh2: .
Wieder mal hat der Sprachautomat Programm 4.12 aubgerufen . - Kannst Du irgendeine Quelle geben (wie Markusz das ja auch für die komischsten Geschichten fertig bringt)? Wahrscheinlich nicht, denn es ist Schwachsinn . Die Symptome sind auf gar keinen Fall monokausal erklärbar, sofern sie überhaupt nachgewiesen wurden. Sehr viele Boxer hatten die gleichen Symptome, die ihnen halt (--> Berufsrisiko) vom Gegner zugefügt wurden.
Kim Weber wurde nach seiner KO-Niederlage gegen Mario Schiesser auch beatmet aus der Halle gebracht. Er konnte zu dem Zeitpunkt garantiert nicht sprechen und mußte im Gegensatz zu Wladimir, der dazu gedrängt wurde, sich auf die Trage zu legen, auf jene gehoben werden . Und Weber wurde sicher auch in ein gaaanz tolles Krankenhaus gebracht, reiche den Link dazu nach .
Danke für den Link . Der untermauert Deine Thesen sehr :thumb: .
Im übrigen gehe ich davon aus, daß die gewissenhaften Ärzte dieses Krankenhauses jeden Boxer nach einer KO-Niederlage / auffälligen Symptomen (--> hat man schon mal, wenn ordentlich was gegen den Kopf bekommt ... ) so betreuen wie Wladimir auch.
Interessant . Dann hat den Mafia also den Kampf zurückgespult, ihre Klientel neu wetten lassen, etc. .
Nein, natürlich nicht, denn nach Sprachprogramm 2.73 "glaube ich 100 %ig an Wladimir Klitschko"
Tja, der Kuchen kommt halt eher zur Einsicht als die Krümel :laugh2: . Sein Anwalt (vielleicht auch ein Psychologe) wird ihm schon erläutert haben, daß Jisi als "Quelle" nicht ausreicht .
Guter Ratschlag! Haben unzählige Boxer vor Wladimir nach halbwegs überraschenden Niederlagen auch so gemacht :thumb: .
Gruß, Competition
jisi schrieb:
Wieder mal hat der Sprachautomat Programm 4.12 aubgerufen
. - Kannst Du irgendeine Quelle geben (wie Markusz das ja auch für die komischsten Geschichten fertig bringt)? Wahrscheinlich nicht, denn es ist Schwachsinn . Die Symptome sind auf gar keinen Fall monokausal erklärbar, sofern sie überhaupt nachgewiesen wurden. Sehr viele Boxer hatten die gleichen Symptome, die ihnen halt (--> Berufsrisiko) vom Gegner zugefügt wurden.Kim Weber wurde nach seiner KO-Niederlage gegen Mario Schiesser auch beatmet aus der Halle gebracht. Er konnte zu dem Zeitpunkt garantiert nicht sprechen und mußte im Gegensatz zu Wladimir, der dazu gedrängt wurde, sich auf die Trage zu legen, auf jene gehoben werden
. Und Weber wurde sicher auch in ein gaaanz tolles Krankenhaus gebracht, reiche den Link dazu nach .Danke für den Link
. Der untermauert Deine Thesen sehr :thumb: .Im übrigen gehe ich davon aus, daß die gewissenhaften Ärzte dieses Krankenhauses jeden Boxer nach einer KO-Niederlage / auffälligen Symptomen (--> hat man schon mal, wenn ordentlich was gegen den Kopf bekommt
... ) so betreuen wie Wladimir auch.Interessant
. Dann hat den Mafia also den Kampf zurückgespult, ihre Klientel neu wetten lassen, etc. .Nein, natürlich nicht, denn nach Sprachprogramm 2.73 "glaube ich 100 %ig an Wladimir Klitschko"
Tja, der Kuchen kommt halt eher zur Einsicht als die Krümel :laugh2: . Sein Anwalt (vielleicht auch ein Psychologe) wird ihm schon erläutert haben, daß Jisi als "Quelle" nicht ausreicht
.Guter Ratschlag! Haben unzählige Boxer vor Wladimir nach halbwegs überraschenden Niederlagen auch so gemacht :thumb: .
Gruß, Competition
Die Atheltic Commission of nevada, Link wurde bereits gepostet, ordnete umfangreiche internistische Tests an. Dies ist wohl bei einem normalen KO oder TKO nicht der Fall.
Wenn ein Boxer nur eine Entschuldigung für einen verlorenen Kampf sucht, wirbelt er nicht derart Staub auf, dann hätte es gereicht zu sagen, er sei z.B. an einem Virus erkrankt.
Dann beauftrage ich keinen Rechtsanwalt, der die Ermittlungen forcieren soll:
Dear Mr. Bogden:
I am an attorney representing Wladimir Klitschko, a professional boxer fighting as a heavyweight. I am writing to respectfully request that your office conduct an investigation into the highly suspicious events surrounding Mr. Klitschko’s April 10, 2004 Las Vegas bout against Lamon Brewster, and the equally suspicious frustration of Mr. Klitschko’s subsequent efforts to ascertain whether or not he had been illicitly drugged or poisoned prior to or during the bout with Mr. Brewster.
As explained below, we are not leveling accusations against anyone in particular, and only seek an investigation to learn the truth and, if appropriate, punish the guilty. As evidenced by this week’s guilty plea in your District by Robert Mittelman to charges that he fixed fights and then unsuccessfully sought to bribe both a federal judge in your District and an Assistant United States Attorney in your Office, it is regrettably all too possible that someone sought to illegally influence the outcome of the Klitschko/Brewster bout. We believe that the facts of record to date more than justify a full investigation by your Office.
THE EVENTS PRIOR TO THE KLITSCHKO/BREWSTER BOUT
Before turning to what occurred during the bout, we first turn to a number of events that preceded the bout - events which, when viewed in connection with the events that followed, give off a strong odor of corruption.
First, as reported by Dean Juipe in the April 19, 2004 Las Vegas Sun, the odds on the bout posted by both Mandalay Bay and Pinnacle, leading offshore sports books, plummeted from 11-1 in Mr. Klitschko’s favor to just 3.5-1 by fight time. As Mr. Juipe pointed out, this “could only happen if there was a huge influx of money wagered on [Mr. Brewster.]” The question, of course, is why? To be sure, odds change in the days and hours before a fight, but experience shows that it is virtually unheard of for them to change so dramatically in such a short period of time.
Your investigation will reveal that Mr. Brewster was understandably a heavy underdog and that nothing in the public domain gave any cause for such a drastic change in the betting line. On the other hand, if a drugging of Mr. Klitschko was planned in advance, that fact would easily explain why there was so much “late money” bet on Mr. Brewster.
In this regard, it should be noted that identifying unusual changes in the odds has been an effective weapon in ferreting out the fixing of sporting events. As reported on March 31, 2002 by Edward Epstein of the San Francisco Chronicle: “The [gaming] industry also claims that Nevada casinos have tipped off the FBI to a few college basketball point-shaving scandals over the past several years by looking for unusual betting patterns on games.” Further, a key ground for the general consensus that the March 1999 draw in the Lennox Lewis/Evander Holyfield bout was the product of corrupt judging, was the fact that the odds on that fight went from 11-5 in Lewis’s favor to “pick ‘em” by the time of the fight. Of course, the swift change in the odds on the Klitschko/Brewster fight were far more dramatic and therefore much more indicative of foul play.
Second, there was a very suspicious incident concerning fight credentials. As you may know, certain credentials for a fight - such as the ones that give a person access to all areas of the arena on fight night - are highly prized and limited. For that reason and also, more importantly, because of security concerns, such credentials are released to an individual only if he or she is on a credentials list and he or she provides photo identification. Notwithstanding these procedures, when a member of the Klitschko team went to pick up his credential prior to the bout, he was told that it had already been picked up. When the team member asked for more information, it became clear that someone had picked up the credential by falsely claiming to be the team member. Given the requirement of photo identification, this error should not have been possible. Yet, it happened, thereby creating a situation where an unidentified person secured an all-access pass through fraud, thus providing himself unfettered access to the arena. While this scenario may seem outlandish, is it any more outlandish than Mr. Mittleman offering a judge and prosecutor in this District $15,000 to fix a case? Is it more outlandish that, in 1919, Arnold Rothstein bribed eight members of the Chicago White Sox so that they would throw the World Series?
In sum, before the Klitschko/Brewster bout even began, there were strong indications - in the form of extreme volatility in the betting line and fraud in the securing of an all-access credential - that some mischief was afoot. Those indications ripened with what transpired next.
THE KLITSCHKO/BREWSTER BOUT
As both Mr. Klitschko and his entire team, including Hall of Fame trainer Emmanuel Steward, will attest, Mr. Klitschko was in extraordinary physical condition for the bout. Indeed, according to Mr. Klitschko, he had never trained so well or come into a bout so well-conditioned. Significantly, he had never shown himself to be a fighter who lacked conditioning or stamina. Thus, what happened on April 10 is wholly inconsistent with Mr. Klitschko’s career. To be sure, he has been knocked out before, but never under circumstances such as those that prevailed on April 10. One need only review the tape of the bout in order to have serious concerns as to whether he was drugged or poisoned - especially in light of the events both before and after the bout.
Inexplicably, beginning in or about the second round, and prior to having been hit with any significant punches, Mr. Klitschko exhibited and experienced a rapid loss of energy, coherence and equilibrium. This fact was noted and is corroborated by the personal observations of his corner-men, who uniformly characterized his condition as something they had not seen previously in their long careers. They noted that he appeared to collapse during the bout, not from the effects of any blows, but rather from some other unknown cause. They also pointed out that Mr. Klitschko lacked the recuperative powers he had shown in all of his past fights, which he should have had in light of training and conditioning. These observations are consistent with publicly reported statements of Referee Robert Byrd, a very experienced official, who, in April 11, 2004's USA Today, stated: “I tried to get a response out of him but there was none. I've never stopped a fight like that." Similarly, in Mr. Juipe’s April 19, 2004 Las Vegas Sun article, an employee of the Palms Casino explained why there was no betting line available on the then-upcoming April 24, 2004 bout between Vitali Klitschko and Corrie Sanders: “It’s because the other Klitschko [Wladimir] looked like he was poisoned or something in the fight with Brewster.” (Emphasis supplied)
Further evidencing foul play is the fact that Mr. Klitschko's condition after the April 10 fight cannot be reconciled with the recuperative powers demonstrated after his defeat by Corrie Sanders in March 2003. Mr. Klitschko also lost the Sanders bout by knockout. A review of that fight shows that Mr. Klitschko was knocked out fair and square by Mr. Sanders’s very visible and powerful blows. Significantly, if one reviews the tapes of both the Sanders and the Brewster fights, it is clear that Mr. Klitschko was hit much harder by Mr. Sanders than by Mr. Brewster. Within the boxing community Mr. Sanders is widely considered one the hardest punchers, far more dangerous than Mr. Brewster. Yet, within minutes of being knocked out by Mr. Sanders, Mr. Klitschko participated in post-fight interviews, in which he coherently communicated in several different languages. In contrast, following the stoppage in Las Vegas on April 10, observers reported that, despite being conscious, Mr. Klitschko's pupils appeared dilated, he was unable to communicate and he was unable to lift his head to respond to inquiries made by the attending physicians. This condition lasted for some time. Mr. Klitschko has also confirmed that his head was completely clear after the Brewster fight was stopped; yet he could not speak or move his body with ease It is also important to note that Mr. Klitschko’s blood sugar level after the fight was 230 -- almost twice the normal level. Medical experts have confirmed to the Klitschko team that such an elevated count may well indicate that Mr. Klitschko was given a foreign substance.
In sum, the events that transpired at the actual bout also raise serious concerns about whether Mr. Klitschko’s performance was impeded by some hidden substance.
THE FRUSTRATION OF MR. KLITSCHKO’S EFFORTS TO LEARN THE TRUTH
Following the bout, Mr. Klitschko expressed his strong view that he had been poisoned or drugged, or that he had some undetected medical condition. Mr. Klitschko’s team concurred in that assessment based upon Mr. Klitschko’s performance. At that time, no one on Mr. Klitschko’s team knew about the changes in the betting line.
Out of concern for Mr. Klitschko, he was taken to the University Medical Center of Southern Nevada (“UMC”) after the bout. At that time, blood and urine samples were taken from Mr. Klitschko.
On April 11, the next day, in order to ensure that he would have an opportunity to ascertain the truth, Mr. Klitschko arranged for additional blood and urine samples to be taken at Quest Diagnostics (“Quest’). Mr. Klitschko’s team made it emphatically clear that they wanted the blood and urine specimens preserved so that they could be tested by an independent doctor of Mr. Klitschko’s choosing.
On April 14, 2004, both UMC and Quest were sent appropriate medical authorizations, signed by Mr. Klitschko, requesting that his medical records, including his blood and urine specimens, be sent to noted physician, Dr. Robert Voy. Dr. Voy is a former physician for the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the former President of USA Boxing, the body that governs amateur and Olympic boxing in the United States. Further, over the next ten days, representatives of Mr. Klitschko left numerous messages at Quest and UMC reinforcing the requests for the blood and urine specimens.
Significantly, on information and belief, Quest has a policy of retaining blood and urine specimens for seven (7) days after testing, and UMC has a policy of retaining blood specimens for ten (10) days after testing. Hence, according to Quest and UMC policies, all of the blood and urine samples were in existence on April 14, when Quest and UMC received the medical authorization forms signed by Mr. Klitschko. Similarly, according to those same policies, the blood and urine should have been retained by Quest until April 18, and the blood should have been retained by UMC until April 20. As noted, during the period between April 14 and April 20, there were numerous communications between Mr. Klitschko’s representatives and both Quest and UMC requesting that the blood and urine specimens be preserved and sent to Dr. Voy.
Incredibly, though, all of the specimens, with the exception of one milliliter of urine (too small an amount to permit meaningful testing), had been destroyed by UMC and Quest. To date, no rational explanation has been presented for this failure to deliver the specimens which UMC and Quest had in their possession at the time Mr. Klitschko requested that they be transferred to Dr. Voy. Of course, there are a number of possible explanations, some innocent, for what occurred. However, one of those possible explanations - and an eminently reasonable one - is that those specimens were destroyed in order to hide the truth of what happened to Mr. Klitschko.
In this regard, we also note that, on April 26, 2004, Mr. Klitschko was given a complete physical examination by Dr. Stuart Friedman of Los Angeles, who is associated with Cedar Sinai Hospital. Mr. Klitschko was found to be in perfect health. Hence, if there was something physically wrong with Mr. Klitschko on April 10, it was not caused by any chronic condition.
CONCLUSION
I recognize that the issues raised here involve very serious implicit allegations. But they are allegations which, I respectfully submit, need to be investigated in order to protect the integrity of a sport that Mr. Klitschko and I love, and which is so commercially important to the State of Nevada. Something just does not smell right here, and the truth needs to come out.
Respectfully yours,
Judd Berstein
Es gibt keine Beweise, dass es eine Manipulation war, aber es gibt auch keine Beweise, dass es keine Manipulation war.
Wenn ein Boxer nur eine Entschuldigung für einen verlorenen Kampf sucht, wirbelt er nicht derart Staub auf, dann hätte es gereicht zu sagen, er sei z.B. an einem Virus erkrankt.
Dann beauftrage ich keinen Rechtsanwalt, der die Ermittlungen forcieren soll:
Dear Mr. Bogden:
I am an attorney representing Wladimir Klitschko, a professional boxer fighting as a heavyweight. I am writing to respectfully request that your office conduct an investigation into the highly suspicious events surrounding Mr. Klitschko’s April 10, 2004 Las Vegas bout against Lamon Brewster, and the equally suspicious frustration of Mr. Klitschko’s subsequent efforts to ascertain whether or not he had been illicitly drugged or poisoned prior to or during the bout with Mr. Brewster.
As explained below, we are not leveling accusations against anyone in particular, and only seek an investigation to learn the truth and, if appropriate, punish the guilty. As evidenced by this week’s guilty plea in your District by Robert Mittelman to charges that he fixed fights and then unsuccessfully sought to bribe both a federal judge in your District and an Assistant United States Attorney in your Office, it is regrettably all too possible that someone sought to illegally influence the outcome of the Klitschko/Brewster bout. We believe that the facts of record to date more than justify a full investigation by your Office.
THE EVENTS PRIOR TO THE KLITSCHKO/BREWSTER BOUT
Before turning to what occurred during the bout, we first turn to a number of events that preceded the bout - events which, when viewed in connection with the events that followed, give off a strong odor of corruption.
First, as reported by Dean Juipe in the April 19, 2004 Las Vegas Sun, the odds on the bout posted by both Mandalay Bay and Pinnacle, leading offshore sports books, plummeted from 11-1 in Mr. Klitschko’s favor to just 3.5-1 by fight time. As Mr. Juipe pointed out, this “could only happen if there was a huge influx of money wagered on [Mr. Brewster.]” The question, of course, is why? To be sure, odds change in the days and hours before a fight, but experience shows that it is virtually unheard of for them to change so dramatically in such a short period of time.
Your investigation will reveal that Mr. Brewster was understandably a heavy underdog and that nothing in the public domain gave any cause for such a drastic change in the betting line. On the other hand, if a drugging of Mr. Klitschko was planned in advance, that fact would easily explain why there was so much “late money” bet on Mr. Brewster.
In this regard, it should be noted that identifying unusual changes in the odds has been an effective weapon in ferreting out the fixing of sporting events. As reported on March 31, 2002 by Edward Epstein of the San Francisco Chronicle: “The [gaming] industry also claims that Nevada casinos have tipped off the FBI to a few college basketball point-shaving scandals over the past several years by looking for unusual betting patterns on games.” Further, a key ground for the general consensus that the March 1999 draw in the Lennox Lewis/Evander Holyfield bout was the product of corrupt judging, was the fact that the odds on that fight went from 11-5 in Lewis’s favor to “pick ‘em” by the time of the fight. Of course, the swift change in the odds on the Klitschko/Brewster fight were far more dramatic and therefore much more indicative of foul play.
Second, there was a very suspicious incident concerning fight credentials. As you may know, certain credentials for a fight - such as the ones that give a person access to all areas of the arena on fight night - are highly prized and limited. For that reason and also, more importantly, because of security concerns, such credentials are released to an individual only if he or she is on a credentials list and he or she provides photo identification. Notwithstanding these procedures, when a member of the Klitschko team went to pick up his credential prior to the bout, he was told that it had already been picked up. When the team member asked for more information, it became clear that someone had picked up the credential by falsely claiming to be the team member. Given the requirement of photo identification, this error should not have been possible. Yet, it happened, thereby creating a situation where an unidentified person secured an all-access pass through fraud, thus providing himself unfettered access to the arena. While this scenario may seem outlandish, is it any more outlandish than Mr. Mittleman offering a judge and prosecutor in this District $15,000 to fix a case? Is it more outlandish that, in 1919, Arnold Rothstein bribed eight members of the Chicago White Sox so that they would throw the World Series?
In sum, before the Klitschko/Brewster bout even began, there were strong indications - in the form of extreme volatility in the betting line and fraud in the securing of an all-access credential - that some mischief was afoot. Those indications ripened with what transpired next.
THE KLITSCHKO/BREWSTER BOUT
As both Mr. Klitschko and his entire team, including Hall of Fame trainer Emmanuel Steward, will attest, Mr. Klitschko was in extraordinary physical condition for the bout. Indeed, according to Mr. Klitschko, he had never trained so well or come into a bout so well-conditioned. Significantly, he had never shown himself to be a fighter who lacked conditioning or stamina. Thus, what happened on April 10 is wholly inconsistent with Mr. Klitschko’s career. To be sure, he has been knocked out before, but never under circumstances such as those that prevailed on April 10. One need only review the tape of the bout in order to have serious concerns as to whether he was drugged or poisoned - especially in light of the events both before and after the bout.
Inexplicably, beginning in or about the second round, and prior to having been hit with any significant punches, Mr. Klitschko exhibited and experienced a rapid loss of energy, coherence and equilibrium. This fact was noted and is corroborated by the personal observations of his corner-men, who uniformly characterized his condition as something they had not seen previously in their long careers. They noted that he appeared to collapse during the bout, not from the effects of any blows, but rather from some other unknown cause. They also pointed out that Mr. Klitschko lacked the recuperative powers he had shown in all of his past fights, which he should have had in light of training and conditioning. These observations are consistent with publicly reported statements of Referee Robert Byrd, a very experienced official, who, in April 11, 2004's USA Today, stated: “I tried to get a response out of him but there was none. I've never stopped a fight like that." Similarly, in Mr. Juipe’s April 19, 2004 Las Vegas Sun article, an employee of the Palms Casino explained why there was no betting line available on the then-upcoming April 24, 2004 bout between Vitali Klitschko and Corrie Sanders: “It’s because the other Klitschko [Wladimir] looked like he was poisoned or something in the fight with Brewster.” (Emphasis supplied)
Further evidencing foul play is the fact that Mr. Klitschko's condition after the April 10 fight cannot be reconciled with the recuperative powers demonstrated after his defeat by Corrie Sanders in March 2003. Mr. Klitschko also lost the Sanders bout by knockout. A review of that fight shows that Mr. Klitschko was knocked out fair and square by Mr. Sanders’s very visible and powerful blows. Significantly, if one reviews the tapes of both the Sanders and the Brewster fights, it is clear that Mr. Klitschko was hit much harder by Mr. Sanders than by Mr. Brewster. Within the boxing community Mr. Sanders is widely considered one the hardest punchers, far more dangerous than Mr. Brewster. Yet, within minutes of being knocked out by Mr. Sanders, Mr. Klitschko participated in post-fight interviews, in which he coherently communicated in several different languages. In contrast, following the stoppage in Las Vegas on April 10, observers reported that, despite being conscious, Mr. Klitschko's pupils appeared dilated, he was unable to communicate and he was unable to lift his head to respond to inquiries made by the attending physicians. This condition lasted for some time. Mr. Klitschko has also confirmed that his head was completely clear after the Brewster fight was stopped; yet he could not speak or move his body with ease It is also important to note that Mr. Klitschko’s blood sugar level after the fight was 230 -- almost twice the normal level. Medical experts have confirmed to the Klitschko team that such an elevated count may well indicate that Mr. Klitschko was given a foreign substance.
In sum, the events that transpired at the actual bout also raise serious concerns about whether Mr. Klitschko’s performance was impeded by some hidden substance.
THE FRUSTRATION OF MR. KLITSCHKO’S EFFORTS TO LEARN THE TRUTH
Following the bout, Mr. Klitschko expressed his strong view that he had been poisoned or drugged, or that he had some undetected medical condition. Mr. Klitschko’s team concurred in that assessment based upon Mr. Klitschko’s performance. At that time, no one on Mr. Klitschko’s team knew about the changes in the betting line.
Out of concern for Mr. Klitschko, he was taken to the University Medical Center of Southern Nevada (“UMC”) after the bout. At that time, blood and urine samples were taken from Mr. Klitschko.
On April 11, the next day, in order to ensure that he would have an opportunity to ascertain the truth, Mr. Klitschko arranged for additional blood and urine samples to be taken at Quest Diagnostics (“Quest’). Mr. Klitschko’s team made it emphatically clear that they wanted the blood and urine specimens preserved so that they could be tested by an independent doctor of Mr. Klitschko’s choosing.
On April 14, 2004, both UMC and Quest were sent appropriate medical authorizations, signed by Mr. Klitschko, requesting that his medical records, including his blood and urine specimens, be sent to noted physician, Dr. Robert Voy. Dr. Voy is a former physician for the Nevada State Athletic Commission and the former President of USA Boxing, the body that governs amateur and Olympic boxing in the United States. Further, over the next ten days, representatives of Mr. Klitschko left numerous messages at Quest and UMC reinforcing the requests for the blood and urine specimens.
Significantly, on information and belief, Quest has a policy of retaining blood and urine specimens for seven (7) days after testing, and UMC has a policy of retaining blood specimens for ten (10) days after testing. Hence, according to Quest and UMC policies, all of the blood and urine samples were in existence on April 14, when Quest and UMC received the medical authorization forms signed by Mr. Klitschko. Similarly, according to those same policies, the blood and urine should have been retained by Quest until April 18, and the blood should have been retained by UMC until April 20. As noted, during the period between April 14 and April 20, there were numerous communications between Mr. Klitschko’s representatives and both Quest and UMC requesting that the blood and urine specimens be preserved and sent to Dr. Voy.
Incredibly, though, all of the specimens, with the exception of one milliliter of urine (too small an amount to permit meaningful testing), had been destroyed by UMC and Quest. To date, no rational explanation has been presented for this failure to deliver the specimens which UMC and Quest had in their possession at the time Mr. Klitschko requested that they be transferred to Dr. Voy. Of course, there are a number of possible explanations, some innocent, for what occurred. However, one of those possible explanations - and an eminently reasonable one - is that those specimens were destroyed in order to hide the truth of what happened to Mr. Klitschko.
In this regard, we also note that, on April 26, 2004, Mr. Klitschko was given a complete physical examination by Dr. Stuart Friedman of Los Angeles, who is associated with Cedar Sinai Hospital. Mr. Klitschko was found to be in perfect health. Hence, if there was something physically wrong with Mr. Klitschko on April 10, it was not caused by any chronic condition.
CONCLUSION
I recognize that the issues raised here involve very serious implicit allegations. But they are allegations which, I respectfully submit, need to be investigated in order to protect the integrity of a sport that Mr. Klitschko and I love, and which is so commercially important to the State of Nevada. Something just does not smell right here, and the truth needs to come out.
Respectfully yours,
Judd Berstein
Es gibt keine Beweise, dass es eine Manipulation war, aber es gibt auch keine Beweise, dass es keine Manipulation war.
F
Francois
Guest
@ Competition
Wir sind aber noch auf dem Planeten, und wenn du Jisi noch mehr reizt
wird sie uns hier ihr persönliches Wladi Poesiealbum als Beweis posten, also lass gut sein.
Wir sind aber noch auf dem Planeten, und wenn du Jisi noch mehr reizt
wird sie uns hier ihr persönliches Wladi Poesiealbum als Beweis posten, also lass gut sein.
Harrison
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jisi schrieb:
:laugh2: Wie soll denn dieser Beweis aussehen, der uns vor allem dir klar macht, dass es keine Manipulation war? Bei welchem Kampf seit Beginn des Profiboxsports wurde solch ein Beweis erbracht? :confused:
Oder gilt bei den Klitschkos neuerdings die Beweislastumkehr?
Competition
Administrator a.D.
@ Jisi
Jetzt müllst Du hier einen seitenlangen Brief von Klitschkos Anwalt rein, der natürlich die Sicht vertritt, die Wladimir damals wohl auch vertrat und Du als "Jünger" immer noch. Meine Güte, was soll der Mann denn anderes schreiben, und was hat das mit "Fakten" zu tun ?
Jeder macht es anders . Vitali hatte eine merkwürdige Handverletzung, die über Nacht in die Schulter wanderte und operiert werden mußte. Wladimir hatte einen relativ einfach zu erklärenden Kollaps nach körperlicher Höchstleistung (erspar uns jetzt die Sprachmodule 3.00 - 4.79, ich kann selbst im Trash nachsehen ), will aber "gedrugged" worden sein. - Die Untersuchugen nach Substanzen fanden auschließlich wegen dieser Verdächtigung statt. Neurologische Untersuchungen sind obligatorisch. Nach dieser ersten "Ich-beiße-um mich-Phase" gab Wladimir schnell Ruhe, aber die "Bewegung" hatte sich schon selbständig gemacht :laugh2: .
Was soll man da sagen . - Wenn ich Dir jetzt mit Begriffen wie "Wissenschaftstheorie" oder "Logik" käme, wäre das sowieso für die Katz. Vereinfacht kann man folgendes sagen: Wenn jemand die Behauptung aufstellt, daß ihm Drogen verabreicht wurden, so muß dies bewiesen werden. Es handelt sich hier um Verifikationsverfahren, welches durch Nachweis der Substanzen erbracht werden muß. Basta. -- Den umgekehrten Nachweis zu verlangen, ist dümmlich. Eine Implikation dieses Schwachsinns wäre z.B., jeden Athleten in der Geschichte aller Sportarten unter Generalverdacht des Dopings zu stellen, da erstens nicht alle und erst Recht nicht auf Alles untersucht wurden .
Du tust mir in Deiner Verblendung aufrichtig leid . Dabei geht es mir weniger um Deine Thesen, sondern um Deine zirkuläre, totalitäre Denkungsart.
Gruß, Competition
Jetzt müllst Du hier einen seitenlangen Brief von Klitschkos Anwalt rein, der natürlich die Sicht vertritt, die Wladimir damals wohl auch vertrat und Du als "Jünger" immer noch. Meine Güte, was soll der Mann denn anderes schreiben, und was hat das mit "Fakten" zu tun
?Jeder macht es anders
. Vitali hatte eine merkwürdige Handverletzung, die über Nacht in die Schulter wanderte und operiert werden mußte. Wladimir hatte einen relativ einfach zu erklärenden Kollaps nach körperlicher Höchstleistung (erspar uns jetzt die Sprachmodule 3.00 - 4.79, ich kann selbst im Trash nachsehen ), will aber "gedrugged" worden sein. - Die Untersuchugen nach Substanzen fanden auschließlich wegen dieser Verdächtigung statt. Neurologische Untersuchungen sind obligatorisch. Nach dieser ersten "Ich-beiße-um mich-Phase" gab Wladimir schnell Ruhe, aber die "Bewegung" hatte sich schon selbständig gemacht :laugh2: .jisi schrieb:
Was soll man da sagen
. - Wenn ich Dir jetzt mit Begriffen wie "Wissenschaftstheorie" oder "Logik" käme, wäre das sowieso für die Katz. Vereinfacht kann man folgendes sagen: Wenn jemand die Behauptung aufstellt, daß ihm Drogen verabreicht wurden, so muß dies bewiesen werden. Es handelt sich hier um Verifikationsverfahren, welches durch Nachweis der Substanzen erbracht werden muß. Basta. -- Den umgekehrten Nachweis zu verlangen, ist dümmlich. Eine Implikation dieses Schwachsinns wäre z.B., jeden Athleten in der Geschichte aller Sportarten unter Generalverdacht des Dopings zu stellen, da erstens nicht alle und erst Recht nicht auf Alles untersucht wurden .Du tust mir in Deiner Verblendung aufrichtig leid
. Dabei geht es mir weniger um Deine Thesen, sondern um Deine zirkuläre, totalitäre Denkungsart.Gruß, Competition
Competition
Administrator a.D.
Francois schrieb:@ Competition
Wir sind aber noch auf dem Planeten, und wenn du Jisi noch mehr reizt
wird sie uns hier ihr persönliches Wladi Poesiealbum als Beweis posten, also lass gut sein.
Das sehe ich jetzt erst
. - Jisi, was soll das ? Die Mods haben extra den Trah aufgemacht für die Nebenbereiche des Themas! Wieso postest Du das schon wieder hier?
timeout4u
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Wobei die ganze Manipulationstheorie einen großen Haken hat: bei manipulierten Kämpfen sollte es ja üblicherweise so sein, dass mindestens 1 Boxer eingeweiht sein muss, will man denn auf Nummer sicher gehen.
Wie bei einer Manipulation ja üblicherweise der Fall, ist der Sinn einer Manipulation ja die absolute Minimierung irgendwelcher Risiken, dass etwas schief läuft. Und vor lauter Manipulation hat man dann z.B. scheinbar nicht darauf geachtet, dass Brewster beinahe ausgeknockt bzw. vorzeitig besiegt worden wäre? Nach dem Motto: dumme Manipulierer im BoxBizz. Zudem ist der ganze Kampfverlauf sehr atypisch für eine Manipulation, es sei denn, Klitschko wäre auch selbst daran beteiligt gewesen. Aber ich schätze mal diesen bzw. diese entscheidene(n) Haken wollen die Pro-Klitschko-Leute nicht wirklich erkennen, denn da sie ja angeblich gerne selbst denken, müssten sie ja selbst auf diese Haken kommen.
Wie bei einer Manipulation ja üblicherweise der Fall, ist der Sinn einer Manipulation ja die absolute Minimierung irgendwelcher Risiken, dass etwas schief läuft.
Und vor lauter Manipulation hat man dann z.B. scheinbar nicht darauf geachtet, dass Brewster beinahe ausgeknockt bzw. vorzeitig besiegt worden wäre? Nach dem Motto: dumme Manipulierer im BoxBizz. Zudem ist der ganze Kampfverlauf sehr atypisch für eine Manipulation, es sei denn, Klitschko wäre auch selbst daran beteiligt gewesen. Aber ich schätze mal diesen bzw. diese entscheidene(n) Haken wollen die Pro-Klitschko-Leute nicht wirklich erkennen, denn da sie ja angeblich gerne selbst denken, müssten sie ja selbst auf diese Haken kommen.